per amica silentia lunae

or, across the ferny brae with the evil voodoo celt

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this was going to be a comment, but it became a rant
dream
evcelt
turn your sound on and go here:

http://www.ralphdontrun.net/

I sent my email.



Although I'm not sure that you can blame Nader's constituency for Bush. If Gore had more personality than a cigar-store Indian, he wouldn't have been so marginal. The fact is that he wasn't a terribly viable candidate. Then there was the blatant criminality of the Florida election.

Personally, I think Nader was made the whipping boy of the Dem apparatchicks because they needed somebody to blame their loss on. It couldn't possibly have been because they f***ed up, oh no. It couldn't have had anything to do with a lackluster candidate, unfocused agendas, uninspiring message, etc. No, it's the evil Darth Nader- it's all his fault. BS.

I voted for Nader, mainly because I live in National Socialist Virginia, where my vote has never really counted in Presidential elections since it always goes Republican. If there wasn't this stupid electoral system, I probably wouldn't have voted for Nader. But in this case, it didn't hurt. If I could have contacted a Florida Naderite and gotten him to vote for Gore in exchange, I would have. ;-)

I was expressing my disdain for a two party monolithic system with little real choice except (or so it seems) what special interests the candidates pander to. I wanted to vote for a third-party candidate, since my vote didn't really count. I do not and did not particularly support Nader.

This year, it's different. This year, the Dems don't need any distractions. But, once again, they better field a candidate who can actually get votes. They need to stop sniping at each other, and looking for enemies in their own ranks, and focus on defeating the real enemy. I will vote for a Democrat, but it's really a vote against Bush.

This entire circus disgusts me, quite frankly. I don't apologize for voting for Nader. Nor will I be characterized as an idiot because I did.

But I sent an email. And I'll vote for the Dem this time. Not because I'm a Dem. But because I'm scared.

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Yeah, it can be annoying...but no matter how much we hate it, we are a two party system, and lets face it...in courting the "moderate vote" we end up being a one party system with platforms that are interchangable except for nuances. No one can expect Nader or Perot or Ventura to change that...

I have always said that the election four years ago was Gore's to lose...and he did. Yeah, you can cry foul about the Supreme court and the re-counts and say it was stolen...but if you leave the front door unlocked and package your valuables for easy carry and then post that fact and get robbed...guess what, you got only yourself to blame.

I lived in Maryland where I voted Republican...like it EVER mattered in the Democractic Peoples Republic of MD. Closest I got was Connie Morella who was a democrat in Republican clothing, and even she got lambasted and driven out of office. So I understand the frustration...it may be lousy...but its still the better system on the planet for a country as large and diverse as ours...I may not be a big fan of super-efficeint (facist) government...but the last thing I want is a truly represtational government like Italy...where ALL the weirdo's come out and play.

its still the better system on the planet for a country as large and diverse as ours

I know... who said "America has the worst political system in the world- except for everybody else's"?

But just because it works better than anyone else's doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

Well obviously we disagree on Bush and there isn't much point in arguing that. It looks like Kerry will be the Democratic nominee and I fear that you may be back to your cigar store Indian issue. I have not watched a lot of him so that may not be a fair characterization.

Yeah, I'm pretty much with you...in previous elections, I voted Libertarian even though they have a snowball's chance in hell of winning and frankly need a MUCH wider representation in lower levels of government before they could become a halfway viable third party. But I jive with more of their ideals than any other party's, I believe firmly that we SHOULD have more than two parties in power, and my vote in NY was hardly going to change which way the wind blows so I could afford to be idealistic.

Having only two parties, IMO, creates more of an illusion of choice than a real choice. Having only two parties creates something of a monopoly, and monopolies are by nature lazy and greedy and self-absorbed. Now nothing in our federal legislature has anything to do with ideals, with making the world a better place, with real progressiveness or even common sense-- it's all about playing the game, all about leeching all blood and fire from everything you say till it's the dumbest, blandest crap that's not going to offend any special interest group and also doesn't mean anything. You could make a case that to a certain extent it's always been this way, but I don't know if I'd agree. And I don't think we as a society even know what a real leader IS anymore. It's all about suffering through the lesser of two evils-- if you can even get that much elected.

Whoever I vote for in November, I am totally with you-- it's a vote against Bush, not for the candidate. Despite living in a solidly Republican state, I am seriously considering voting Democrat, just in the faint hopes that we can prune the shrub.

Since I came of age, I have never voted for anyone; rather, I vote against people. Politics is a curse upon the human race so I have no choice but to select the lesser of two evils. Most usually that is a non-Republican. I didn't vote for Nader but, if I my vote had been *for* anyone, I would definitely have been in Nader's camp. This time around, I agree with many others, yourself included it seems.

We need solidarity in order to stop the frightening trends brought about by the Far Right and their puppet president. What truly scares me is that Dubya will be our president again because our votes won't count any more this time than they did in the last election. An appointed president is a sure sign of totalitarian state in my opinion. What makes us think that we can vote a dictator out of office?

I hope I'm wrong, as I often am. I guess we'll see in the next few months. In the meantime, I'll be polishing my jack boots and practicing my Zieg Heil salute...just in case....

Sweet merciful crap, my hyperbole level indicator just exploded!

Then my work here is done.

I hear that Full Metal Jacket in Alexandria still has a few pairs of jackboots left from the East German Going Out of Business Sale...

Facist attacks on the Right

As one of the Right Wing of LARP, I proudly asked Nader to run this year. I generally find liberal candidates as terrifying as you find mine. When they are in power, I wonder if I should be quoting Marx.

Our side feels a need for solidarity in opposing you. That goes both ways.

It is rare that a president can do nearly as much as his opposition fears. I loathed Clinton but realized that at most we would have 8 years of him. Never once did I try to call him a dictator or claim he was Stalin.

Re: Facist attacks on the Right

I loathed Clinton but realized that at most we would have 8 years of him. Never once did I try to call him a dictator or claim he was Stalin.

Then again, there was never a question as to whether or not he was actually elected into office and never once was he appointed president. Presidents are elected, dictators appoint themselves, or have others do it for them in order to look marginally legitimate.

Re: Facist attacks on the Right

Oh, for the love of Christ.

The election in Florida was statistically a tie. They counted twice, and each time Bush was the winner, though each time it was within the margin of error of the counting process. Gore began the lawsuits, trying to get further recounts and procedure changes until he got the result he wanted; Bush wanted to stop at the second count, which was the result he wanted. But there was no right answer. It all came down to a subjective decision as to which votes really counted and for whom. Do you count votes that look like they might have been punched, but weren't completely? Do you count votes that had multiple punchings but maybe that second one was an accident? Do you count votes where the chad might have been punched but didn't fall out, or might that mean counting votes that were never really cast in the first place? What do you do when how you answer each of those questions changes the outcome?

Well, you go to the courts and work as the system was set up. And as the system was set up, Bush won. He won when the first count was done. He won the recount. He won the Supreme Court decision stating that the recount would stand. The only thing Al Gore won was a local court decision to do another recount which was just as partisan as the Supreme Court decision.

George Bush won fair and square by the rules set up, by the rules everyone knew, when the election started. He was not 'appointed', he was fully elected, and claiming otherwise indicates a lack of comprehension of the Constitution and electoral process of the U.S. so vast it makes my head swim.

Jay-sus Christ.

Re: Facist attacks on the Right

Having a difference of opinion regarding the questionable 2000 presidential election by no means indicates a lack of comprehension on my part or the part of those who share my doubts and concerns.

Then again, the constant attack on the First Amendment since 9-11 (Reichstag revisited) makes the mild flame in response to my opinion nothing surprising at all.

evcelt: apologies for this becoming something that it should not have been. This is my last post, regardless of any further inflammatory responses to my opinion. I didn't mean to cause your post to become something unpleasant.

Re: Facist attacks on the Right

I apologize as well to evcelt- I started this, and this was my fault.

Next time I encounter someone who has absolutely no perspective, no grasp of the facts either of the political process of the last few years nor of the facts of the Nazi rise to power in Germany, prefers to discuss by invective and insult, and feels crucified by dissenting opinon, I will attempt to leave the conversation rather than explode in a humorous yet factual manner.

I make no promises, however.

Re: Facist attacks on the Right

I apologize as well to evcelt- I started this, and this was my fault.

Don't worry about it. I respect your assessment of the Florida situation, although I don't necessarily agree with it. But I was more concerned with the widespread harassment of minority voters... hardly a problem unique to FL, and I should have so specified.

Re: Facist attacks on the Right

evcelt: apologies for this becoming something that it should not have been. This is my last post, regardless of any further inflammatory responses to my opinion. I didn't mean to cause your post to become something unpleasant.

No problem. I was in a pissy mood, and I wanted to rile people up.

Re: Facist attacks on the Right

Understood... though I always wonder how an atheist like you stomachs the evangelical Christianity that drives so much of the Republican agenda.

Re: Facist attacks on the Right

There are 2 answers to your comment:

1) Okay man with the wry grin, thanks partly to you I am no longer as ardent an atheist as I was. Or was that the point of the comment? : )

2) There are Mennonites, Quakers, Catholics and others who are staunch Democrats for equally religious reasons. Hell, Clark wrapped himself in God in a recent speech and attacked Bush on the basis of Christian charity. While this element does not get the coverage of Pat Robertson, it is there and I know many of its members. I see the two sides as equal and don't vote on that basis.


Ausir, every post of yours I have read I have loved. Just needed to say a "whoo hoo" on your behalf.

I am a registered Democrat, and will honestly say that as I will probably vote Republican this year, if I vote in he primaries it will be to split the Dem. vote, unless a candidate comes forward who I can support on the issues most important to me.

Otherwise, it will probably be a vote for Dubya. The Dems might indeed whoop his butt this year. It will certainly be interesting to see if it is another close race or a landslide one way or the other, after the Florida brouhaha.

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